(W.E.Talk) Kurt Grötsch: Chinese Culture in the Eyes of a Spanish Museum Director
2024-10-03 Ecns.cn Editor：Xue Lingqiao
By Cui Bailu from CNS
Kurt Grötsch is the co-founder and director emeritus of the Flamenco Dance Museum in Sevilla, and the former president of the Flamenco Theatre Association of Spain. He created the "Chinese Friendly International" in 2011 and is the CEO of the company. He also serves as the co-founder and vice president of "Catedra China", the president of CITIX WORLD. He was appointed as the Ambassador of the Minzu University of China in 2019.
Kurt Grötsch, the co-founder and director emeritus of the Flamenco Dance Museum, has frequently traveled between Spain and China in recent years, actively promoting cultural and people-to-people exchanges between the two countries. In 2011, Kurt founded the “Friendly China”, which is committed to creating a tourism model that improves the satisfaction of Chinese tourists in Europe, promoting mutual understanding and exchanges between the peoples of China and Europe.
Before the 75th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, Kurt visited China again to see the development and changes here. In Beijing, he accepted an exclusive interview with "W.E. Talk" of China News Service, sharing his stories with China for decades, as well as his observations on the cultural exchanges between China and Europe.
Here are the excerpts of the interview:
CNS: When did you first come to China? What was your first impression on China? Do you have any new experiences in Beijing this time?
Kurt Grötsch: I came first to China via Hong Kong in 1998. As I always go to haidressers in my international destinations, I did it also in Hong Kong and this was my first contact with the Chinese service and human quality. I was delighted by my hairdressers experience. Nice, friendly, very young and helpful people, with a deep sense of humour and service quality. This kind of deep understanding and sharing emotions, I experienced later also with my friends and partners from the Minzu University of China.
I started to come frequenlty mainly to Beijing and Shanghai, since 2012, to touristic fairs, and dealing with Chinese companies, which we brought touristically to Spain.
As Europeans, we couldn't avoid to compare our original country and continent with the experiences in tourism destinations. And ours was always better until China awoke and rose. Now, we have to learn and to travel with a new humillity, and to initiate a deep inner dialogue and partner with Chinese Friends on our emotions.
What really astonished me, is the impressive and extraordinary evolution of Beijing as a cultural city and this is a challenge for now and the future, as culture is a vivid organism, if you don't feed it, it will perish.
Chinese culture is a universe in which you migth get lost. But what astonishes me, is the cultural and historical consciousness of the Chinese people of their history. There is a proudness that is remarkable. I think Chinese culture has two columns, the historical one and the contemporary one. Chinese try now, to integrate the modern one into the DNA of Chinese identity.
CNS: You have been committed to cultural and people-to-people exchanges between China and Spain for many years. Could you introduce the work you have done for promoting exchanges between China and Spain?
Kurt Grötsch: In a way or another, I am always a little bit Chinese. The thing is, the Chinese could laugh on my jokes, that was not so evident in Spain. The Spanish didn't know anything about Chinese tourists. Starting in 2010, I created a company, "Chinese Friendly International" to prepare touristic and cultural establishments for a culturally correct reception of Chinese Tourists in Spain.
We organized cultural exchanges with the Minzu University of China and made a sounding exhibition “Flamenco seen through Chinese eyes” with the painters of the Minzu University. Because of all these efforts, the university named me the Ambassador of the Minzu University of China.
In 2012, my friend and partner Marcelo Muñoz and I founded another initiative "Catedra China" to approach China and Spain. That is a think tank. At the moment, we have 420 experts on china is a different fields. And what we try to do is creating another image of China, because image of China is very politicized, depending on a lot of politicians who like or don't like China. So we decided to invite a group of experts on China's different fields. At the moment, we are very known in Spain.
CNS: You founded the Flamenco Museum in 2006 and have served as the the director for nearly 20 years. In your observation, what are the characteristics of museums in Europe and China? What can we learn from each other in this area?
Kurt Grötsch: The most important Museum cities are Paris, London, Berlin and in less extent in Spain with Bilbao, Madrid and Barcelona with the Flagship Museums Louvre, Centre Pompidou, Tate, Museumsinsel, Prado with Art and Thematic Museums, etc.
Most European museums have a tradition or history in their existence and permanent exhibitions. Some of them have a history of hundred years. Even if some are opened at the end of the last century, they have been operated decades, So they have the chance to consolidate their collections, to develop their philosophy and construct a public image, and relate themselves with their surrounding society. They also invested (time and money) to be more visitors friendly. Special efforts had been made in Museums Didactic, that means to approach the contents, meanings of exhibitions to the public. On the other side, there is very great number of hybrid institutions all over Europe, purely private, or nearly private with public funding, which develop a big variety of rule breaking exhibitions.
I have visited museums and art galleries mainly in Shanghai, Xi'an, Bejing and Hong Kong. When I came for the first time to China 20 years ago, I have seen a lot of old fashioned museography with mostly antique vitrines etc. In my visit last year, that has completely changed. Modern, aesthetic museography made me understand the effort that was made to develop a new cultural communication model.
It is the huge invisible structure of content and museums management behind, that transform the museums of China in a tool of enjoying, cultural learning and inner growth, and proudness of being part of a nation, that has not only material, but also inner values and human wealth reflected in the museums of China.
I think that the new museums in China are an enormous opportunity for a new cultural tourism. In Europe there are constant seminars and exchanges of knowledge about Museums, organized, mainly, but not only by the ICOM (International Comittee of Museums) and I am sure and very convinced, that China is already a very active part of these international organizations. Anyway, the Institutions to which I belong, “Catedra China” and “Chinese Friendly International”, we are preparing professional visits of China to know this new moving cultural China.
CNS: Flamenco is a representative art genre in Spain which was listed as an intangible cultural heritage of humanity. What do you think of the inheritance and worldwide spread of cultural heritages like Flamenco?
Kurt Grötsch: The roots of Flamenco, are based on a 3000 years history, going back to the Phenicians who brought the Castagnettes to Spain in the 1000 BC, the most original instrument in Spanish music. The Arabics conquered Spain in the 8th century and brought mainly singing and the Guitar to this country , but also the first dancing approaches. The Gypsies, emigrants from the Punjab region (India, Pakistan) arrived through the Silk Road in the 15th century in Spain and brought some Asian music and dancing elements into what will be called Flamenco in the early 19th century. The Flamenco, as we know today, started its evolution from the 17th century and developed mainly in Andalucia and Extremadura.
I was an university professor in Germany and taught Spanish and Latin American cultures. When I moved to Sevilla, I observed Flamenco as an art, but also as an economy or industry. There were a lot of spontaneous Flamencos, flamenco theaters (tablaos) and I became aware, that there was no physical or historical reference of this millennial art. So I suggested and pushed the creation of the Flamenco Dance Museum, where I have been the the director for nearly 20 years.
The company of the museum is on tour worldwide with about 3000 performances, including in the Poly Theatre in Beijing. Up to the 1990s, those were mostly private initiatives. Since 10 years ago, that is the Andalusian government (but also Madrid) that promote the Flamenco as genuine cultural and ethnographic heritage worldwide, also in China.
About 30% of the audience of the Flamenco Dance Museum are Chinese now. Some years ago, Tina Panadero, the CEO of the Flamenco Dance Museum and I made presentations and gave lessons of the flamenco in the Minzu University of China. Six month later a big exhibition was made, together with Spanish authorities in Beijing. This exhibition was brought to Spain and exposed in Sevilla, Malaga and Madrid. At the same time, six art teachers from the Minzu University of China were invited to stay for three months in Malaga, creating art works. The selected works were exposed in Malaga and Sevilla. Later I saw a painting of this experience in the Contemporary Art Museum of Beijing.
These are only two examples of how "integrated encounter and exchange" could be made, as the previous learning project is as important as the surprising results for the audience. The multiple concerts and performances of Chinese art and traditions in Spain, and the more and more Flamenco shows in China are beautiful, but lack of practical, contemporary artistic approach. New formulas should be developed. That is one of the reasons for me, being in Beijing these days.
CNS: On September, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez paid an official visit to China. He expressed the expectation of strengthening exchanges in culture, education, science and technology to deepen mutual understanding and friendship between the two peoples of Spain and China. How do you see the Sino-Spain relations and the role of culture in promoting exchanges between the two countries?
Kurt Grötsch: I would say a catharsis is taking place what is creating a new approach not only on institutional levels but also on private levels between China and Spain.There are different factors we should consider.
Firstly, it is not the final figure in tourism, as Chinese tourists cannot compete with European travelers in numbers. It means that Chinese Tourism links Spain to China. It is a meaningful tourism that creates hope for that what comes after.
Secondly, the extraordinary work did on all levels to approach China to Spain by the Chinese ambassadors in the last years.
Thirdly, we are glad to see that the rising activities in number and quality of initiatives like "Catedra China" promotes the communication between Spain and China.
Spanish Prime Minister's visit to China last month indicates that a change of paradigma has taken place. This change should also been organized on more private levels, not only in economy and technology, but also in art and culture.
