(W.E. Talk) Martín Unzué: Developing a lasting and true friendship through cultural exchange
By Wang Zonghan from CNS
Dr. Martín Unzué is an Argentinean professor and researcher at the University of Buenos Aires, where he directs the Gino Germani Research Institute. He holds a PhD in Social Sciences. He is also a political scientist and economist. He has written 14 books and several dozen articles in scientific and popular science journals. He is a specialist in public policy, university and science policy.
The 2024 Beijing Cultural Forum kicked off on September 19. This annual cultural feast attracted more than 800 guests from home and abroad to gather in Beijing, including many experts and scholars who traveled a long way to attend the event. Martín Unzué, director of the Gino Germani Institute of the University of Buenos Aires, who visited China for the first time only in March this year, was invited to attend the forum. A few days ago, he was interviewed by "W.E. Talk" of China News Service. With the unique perspective of Latin American scholars, he explained in depth the significance of cultural exchanges in China, Latin America and even the world's interactions and exchanges of different civilizations.
Here are the excerpts of the interview:
CNS: When was the first time you came to China? What's your impression of China and its capital Beijing?
Martín Unzué: It was in March of this year, 2024, that I had my first encounter with China. For a long time I had wanted to know a country so big and important, with such a rich and ancient culture and a present so full of modernity and progress.
This first trip was a revelation for me, and I realize that there is much to learn from China. It is true that coming only once and for a few days does not allow me to say that I know China. It has only given me some preliminary impressions that have only deepened my interest.
I was very pleasantly surprised by this first visit, because the differences between Latin America and China are enormous and for us the comparison is inevitable. It is a way of knowing and evaluating what is known. Here the scales are very different, but also the cultures in different aspects. It is amazing that we are in the same world, but we know so little about each other...
My first impression of Beijing was one of great amazement. It is a huge world-class capital with an impressive cultural richness, with a very present historical legacy, but also with amazing 21st century developments. An admirable combination.
CNS: China and Latin America are separated by thousands of miles and have different cultural traditions. How can Chinese and Latin American civilizations engage in dialogue?
Martín Unzué: In places like Latin America, Chinese has historically been perceived as something very different and complex. In fact, there is a common saying in Argentina that "it's basic Chinese," meaning that it is very complex and not understood at all. Just 30 years ago, there was less Chinese presence in Argentina, but this has begun to change, albeit slowly. The Chinese immigrant community in Latin America and in Argentina has become particularly numerous, significant and appreciated, and it is a first contact between our worlds.
In my city, in Buenos Aires, in the last few years a so-called "Chinatown" has developed, where we can find many shops, restaurants and stores that sell products emblematic of Chinese culture. When the Chinese New Year is celebrated, there are great activities in the streets that attract crowds. There are also certain sectors of the economy, such as grocery stores, that are usually run by Chinese immigrants. I mention this to show that there is slowly a daily contact with some elements of Chinese culture that are present in Argentine daily life. Perhaps it is not the other way around: Argentine culture, or Latin American culture, is not very visible in the daily life of the Chinese population.
But something is changing, and these are just the first steps that bring us closer, but from a great distance. It is very important that these enormous cultural distances are shortened with ever closer ties.
Language is an enormous barrier, but not the only one. It is not very good that we have to go through a third language like English to communicate with each other. Spanish and Chinese are world-class languages and their teaching should be encouraged in both countries. We should not rule out the help that artificial intelligence can give us in this regard.
But language is not everything. Only by increasing mutual knowledge, by sharing our customs, our tastes, our art in general, and our history, which has a lot to teach us, can we learn from each other.
CNS: You have mentioned that the cultural communication is one of the three foundations of the dialogue between the civilizations of China and Latin America. In your opinion, how can Chinese culture really reach the hearts of people in Latin America?
Martín Unzué: China is an enormous cultural power, and we Latin Americans admire cultures rich in tradition. However, very little is known and studied in Latin America about China and about Latin America in China.
The difference with Latin America's cultural relations with other regions of the world can be seen in the ways in which information, knowledge and culture circulate, in the ways in which people get to know each other, in academic, cultural and tourist exchanges... Therefore, there is a lot of work to be done to strengthen these ties, and it should be a long-term project. Because Latin America’s cultural ties with Europe and North America go back almost two centuries. Even the name "Latin America" refers to a hypothetical common cultural root with certain European countries. But historically, this relationship between Latin America and Europe or North America has long been a complex relationship of colonial subordination.
This past, which China has also experienced with the so-called century of humiliation, should be part of a common recognition that can be expressed in various ways, with the solidarity of mutual respect for territorial sovereignty, non-aggression, non-interference in each other’s internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit, and peaceful coexistence. China has had an underdeveloped past and shows that it is possible to come out of it, and this is a debt for the countries of Latin America, but also a source of learning from which we must learn.
That is why it is necessary to strengthen ties and common knowledge, to show that we are different, but that we also have much in common, and that rapprochement is mutually beneficial. China often mentions this goal of building international relations with a "win-win" logic, based on promoting a multipolar world that respects differences and is peaceful. This is an aspiration that we share and that we must put at the heart of our decisions.
CNS: You are now the director of the Gino Germani Institute of the University of Buenos Aires. What’s your opinion the role of universities and academia in the dialogue of different civilizations?
Martín Unzué: In my opinion, academic exchange is fundamental to take the first steps in the process of developing mutual knowledge, and from our institute we have been working for two decades with various Chinese institutions and universities, exchanging professors, researchers and students, thinking about joint work projects, aiming to prove the potential of cooperation and partnership between our countries, which is enormous. We have very complementary economies in several aspects, but in addition, our universities have infinite possibilities for joint work in knowledge production, exchange and teaching. The university should be a fundamental space for cooperation, where evidence is produced on the best ways to advance cooperation.
CNS: With a permanent theme of "Inheritance, Creativity, Mutual Learning," the 2024 Beijing Cultural Forum has “Enhance Culture Exchanges for Common Progress” as its theme for this year. How can culture exchanges promote the common progress of all the countries in the world?
Martín Unzué: Culture is fundamental, it is what makes us human, and therefore knowledge of the other, especially the comparative dimension to which I have already referred, is an enormous stimulus for the progress of culture, that is, of humanity. I have great confidence in cultural exchange as a means of bringing us closer together and of developing a lasting and true friendship, unaffected by momentary conjunctures, by changes in the winds.
CNS: What are your expectations and prospects for better cultural dialogue and mutual learning between China and Argentina in the future?
Martín Unzué: It is my conviction that the potential of the connection between our countries is enormous and is of mutual benefit. In this sense, cultural dialogue is what makes this link more solid and stable. The other dimensions, economic or commercial and financial, are, in my opinion, derivatives of the cultural and social dialogue. A purely economic relationship is weak and unstable. A cultural relationship is much more stable and lasting.
